The Non-Religious Case Against Homosexuality
My North Star Writers Group colleague Jessica Vozel today responds to my column of last week responding to yet another piece by Newsweek’s Lisa Miller on “The Religious Case for Gay Marriage.” (We have to stop responding like this.) She claims that there is not only a strong religious case but an even better non-religious case for gay marriage.
Jessica, are you sure you really want to get mixed up this? OK, strap yourself in.
First of all, as indicated in my column, I’m not even going to engage on the subject of “gay marriage” because it’s self-evident: marriage is between a man and a woman.
I will, however, take on the case, religious and non-religious, against homosexuality.
On the religious side, here’s the problem, and it’s not limited to homosexuality: adherents want to tell God what He should think instead of simply reading what He actually says.
They refuse to focus on what God plainly and objectively states about, and how He handles, homosexuality in the Bible from the beginning (why do think it was called “sodomy?” I’ll give you a hint: “fire and brimstone”) to the end (the statement in Revelation that the “sexually immoral” will not enter Heaven). Instead, they zero in on verses that point to “love” and “equality,” and worse yet, move on to human experience and project that onto Scripture.
Both of which Jessica does in relating the story of Carlton Pearson and the gay man “saved” from suicide. Perhaps there is a reason small-o orthodox Christians labeled Mr. Pearson a heretic. “No hell?” Is that why a search yields 12 references of that term alone from Christ’s own mouth?
And it’s very nice that the young man decided not to kill himself (an action which, by the way, is far more common among homosexuals than the general population) because of Pearson’s accepting words. But the job of religion – and the truly “loving” thing to do – is not to make people feel better for the short term about their sins. It is to apply the “tough love” of getting them to turn from their patterns of wrong behavior (“repent”) and toward Christ, who frequently admonished repentant wanderers to “sin no more.”
Would a surgeon be doing his job – and showing “love” – if he gave a cancer patient an aspirin that temporarily relieved his pain? Of course not. The young man was “saved” from nothing. It’s very likely that as he returned to his homosexual lifestyle, he also returned to the depression that was leading him to contemplate ending his life.
But like arguing about gay marriage, arguing about the Biblical case against homosexuality is pretty much a waste of time. The Bible says what it says, whether the sophists want to accept it or not.
The non-religious case against homosexuality is much more interesting.
Let’s take the favorite refuge of the non-religious, evolution, elements of which I accept in its “micro,” intra-species form. Evolution is supposed to be about natural selection and the propagation of characteristics that ensure species survival. Homosexuality is exactly the opposite case – it’s a trait that two people who can’t procreate could not, by definition, pass on.
So the idea, which I have heard directly from homosexuals, that “I was made this way” is silliness or worse. God said exactly how He made people – “male and female.” And “natural selection” would never “make” a creature who could not reproduce.
Then there’s the fact that homosexuality is a public-health nightmare. According to the Centers for Disease Control, 64% of the primary and secondary syphilis cases reported in 2006 were among so-called men who have sex with men (MSM).
According to the Food and Drug Administration, “Men who have had sex with men since 1977 have an HIV prevalence … 60 times higher than the general population .… (I)nfection with the Hepatitis B virus is about 5-6 times more common and Hepatitis C virus infections are about 2 times more common in men who have sex with other men than in the general population.” Not to mention a whole range of gastrointestinal diseases too disgusting to mention.
Safe sex, you say? As if. Says the FDA, “(T)o date, no donor eligibility questions have been shown to reliably identify a subset of MSM (e.g., based on monogamy or safe sexual practices) who do not still have a substantially increased rate of HIV infection compared to the general population.” They said it, I didn’t.
Homosexuals just want to be made “equal,” you say? Ha. They really want just the opposite – they want special treatment. If any other practice were to constitute a virtual death sentence, the rational public health response would be to attempt to dramatically reduce or eliminate it – not to sanction or elevate it. And they want to share with me, my wife, and my family in our pool for health benefits and insurance as “domestic partners” or even “married” couples, even though their risk of disease and dying younger is far greater than mine.
And love, you say? Love may or may not mean never having to say you’re sorry, but it certainly doesn’t mean habitually exposing the object of one’s love to uncomfortable, painful and even deadly conditions.
No, homosexuality is about purely about lust, not love, about gratifying immediate desires, no matter the risk. It’s not about love for men or women, and in disdaining His creation and His commandments, it’s definitely not about love for God (see John 14:21), which is a prerequisite for expecting His love in return.
Jessica, give it up. Because there are religious and non-religious cases to be made, all right. But neither is for homosexuality, much less gay marriage.
UPDATE: Standing up on issues relating to homosexuality, not just so-called “gay marriage,” is more critical than ever because of stories like this.
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this is by far these least intelligent argument that I have ever read against homosexuality. I believe that everyone is given their right to a fair argument, but how about checking all of the facts and not being blind before you try and make your points.
So - is this the religious or the non-religious argument for packs of drunken teenagers (also “unrepentant wanderers?”) roaming around beating up gays (or people who merely “seem like” they are gay, as in the more-traditional 50’s, before all of the modern liberal gay-liberation movements)?
After all, that would serve both the Darwinian and the non-Darwinian imperative to eliminate those who do not reproduce. When they are done, maybe they could do the same to nuns and spinsters and senior citizens.
The evolutionary argument would support the idea of violence against gays. I do not.
I do support plain speaking about the wrongness of homosexuality and the physical and spiritual dangers of “defining deviancy downwards,” and standing up to bullying from the pro-Prop 8 crowd.
And I especially support actions to promote marriage. Real marriage.
Ummm…. you really don’t know much about evolution, do you? Otherwise, you would not pour forth nonsense like “And “natural selection” would never “make” a creature who could not reproduce.”
Evolution does not support that which reproduces the most, it supports that which lends itself to ongoing species existence. Anyone who thinks that a species that features members that do not reproduce must die off has little working knowledge of honey bees, for a blatant example.
Also, the same genetic markers that will form a non-reproductive behavior in one member of the species may provide very specific positive effects in others. There are indications, for example, that some of the same things which cause a tendency toward homosexuality in male humans cause greater fertility rates in females, this lending to their propogation.
Of course, you really don’t care about the science. You just want some justification for your own hate-filled beliefs and your demands for special rights for people like yourself.
Wow - a couple of these comments are really instructive about tolerance & love. Amazing.
The reality here is that homosexuals need to make a religious argument, because the “scientific” argument doesn’t exist. Nobody has found a gene marker for homosexual tendencies, and (despite the previous comment) there’s no evidence that micro evolution (natural selection)ever supports or creates macro evolution. Darwinism, in fact, has no good explanation for the honeybee. Survival behavior in one organism does not imply that there’s any “species organism” it’s supporting. Finally, even if there were such things (and that’s bad guesswork by any scientific yardstick), true darwinists are actually less tolerant of homosexuality than the religious are.
In any event, I know that’s not going to sway any of the pro-gay argumentists. They’re going to call me (and you, Bob) intolerant and hateful, even though we don’t support gang beatings any more than we support homosexuality. And that IS natural behavior: human beings (myself included) try to hide and minimize their sin. Every human on earth has the same solution to that: get past yourself, give yourself to Christ, and accept that he will transform you. Let that process take you places you don’t want to go, and strip off parts of you that you didn’t want to give up.
Just a quick clarification - I don’t actually believe that “natural selection” is observable either - or rather, that it’s “natural” in the sense that it’s random or somehow driven by survival behavior. There’s zero observable, provable science surrounding this - it’s all theory and supposition based on lab work (which by definition, has a creator - and therefore isn’t random at all).
“They’re going to call me (and you, Bob) intolerant and hateful, even though we don’t support gang beatings any more than we support homosexuality.”
Wow. That’s your dividing line? You’re not hateful unless you actually want to see someone beaten down by a gang? That sure gives you a lot of leeway. Want to give someone lesser legal rights or have them imprisoned because they’re not like you?
If one doesn’t want to be called hateful or intolerant, it would be to one’s advantage not to be publicly hateful or intolerant.
Well, thanks for a spirited discussion on all sides.
OK, Nat G., I’ll bite. What contribution to the survival of the species do homosexuals make that is comparable to that of the worker bee? Please don’t tell me interior decorating or hairdressing. It’s a ridiculous argument. In fact, the compromised immune systems of AIDS sufferer have endangered the species by helping lead to the introduction of resistant tuberculosis and staph strains.
And tell me how it is “hateful” to encourage people to carry forth in a lifestyle that is physically and emotionally self-destructive and is statistically proven to lead to early death? In the same degree to which gay relationships can be likened to marriage,smoking could be likened to delivery of a “drug.” I suppose we should have prescription coverage for it under Medicare. Of course not. In fact, as a public health matter, we do quite a bit (though not enough) to discourage it.
The truly hateful thing to do would be not only to allow gays to continue in their behavior and suffer the consequences but to encourage others to take up their ways, which creating the sanction of same-sex “marriage” would do.
Instead, Christians send mission groups to Africa to help administer aid to HIV sufferers and provide health and spiritual services to people with AIDS in the US, even as we speak out against homosexual practice.
Meanwhile, we’re told that even to speak against homosexuality is “homophobia” — true “hate speech” because it equates principled stands to mental disease. Who are the haters?
Nat,
Along with Bob, I’m scratching my head here. You’ve been repeatedly hateful & intolerant to Christianity, by your own definition; you’re attacking our faith & acting like that’s okay. And frankly - it is, I’m okay with it. Just pointing out the contradiction.
On the other side, let me ask you how you talk about pedophiles? How about bestiality, or incest, or multiple marriages? Are those things okay? Where do you draw the line? And how? Many folks use the “consenting adults” argument, but let me point out that you’re still drawing a line somewhere, just in a different place. You’re no different from us on that point.
As Bob points out, why is it hateful to tell people that they’re being self destructive? It certainly is hateful to run around spitting venom and carrying “death to gays” signs, but we aren’t doing that. Yeah, some people do. Also, there are homosexuals that intentionally infect their partners with HIV. Hate and violence are part of us, but they are no more acceptable to me than any other sin.
Finally, your legal argument is fairly inconsistant as well. There are plenty of other “lifestyle choices” that are restricted legally, and some that carry jail time. Smokers, for instance, are the pariahs of the moment. Harder for them to get life insurance, restrictions on their exercise of the choice, etc. Nobody has told smokers that they can’t smoke; but, practically, we’re telling them that they can’t call themselves non-smokers in order to get good insurance rates. It’s called fraud.
I hope that clarifies things for you, Nat. My suspicion is that it won’t, based on your last post. I think you’ve pre-defined any opposition as homophobia and hate. I certainly am interested in hearing how you don’t define anti-christian diatribes the same way. Please don’t tell me that you’re not stepping on our rights - because you are.
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Trust me people, gay marriage proponents are not going to listen or give anyone praise for being as sensitive as possible. They will attach you INSTANTLY once you are against gay marriage. This tendency by itself, is enough reason to be worried about what could happen if gay marriage is legaized.
They are hateful and intolerant of Christianity - and all this means is that if homosexuality is accepted as part of the family structure, and in society as a whole, Christians are in for some Ancient Rome - Style persecution. Gay marriage activists are driven by raw emotion. They demand that we show them facts without showing us any credible facts themselves. Funny how the burden of proof is all of a sudden on us - We have to defend why an institution that has been the same from the beginning should not be altered. Unbelievable.
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